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Has anyone tried or have one of these multi-effects processors? I'm looking for a versatile processor that gives me as close to true tube-tone as possible. From youtube videos, and reviews online, it seems like this processor does the best job at exactly that. It looks like other processors like the BOSS GT-10 or RP-500/1000 give you more effects and amp modeling options, but the tone isn't 'quite' there IMO, and to be honest - I don't use a ton of effects anyway, except for the basics. I know people will say 'you need a tube amp to get tube tone', and I agree - but I don't want to lug around a heavy tube amp anymore - I need something more versatile but I also want a tube tone. The tube in the Vox Valvetronic system doesn't sound like a gimmick to me - if it was just a gimmick, this pedal would sound exactly like other solid state processors. It's basically the same system they use in their Vox Valvetronic amps, except in the form of a processor.
What do you guys think? Hmm - I don't know.
It might be the same or a similar setup, and I guess it depends on what 'tone' you're shooting for. I want something that can take me across a wide range of tones. From heavy Alter Bridge tones, to smoother Vai/Satriani Tones, to cleaner or moderately overdriven tones. The 6505+ amp I had was good, but not great and it weighs a lot. I find myself never using it outside of the house because I don't want to move the thing.
So it's for sale, along with my pedals I'm not sure what 'mini' amp would work well for me, except for maybe a mini-mesa, but they're like $900. A JVM would be amazing, but - again - I don't have the money for that. I'm willing to sacrifice a little bit of tone for versatility and ease of transport. And I already have a behringer keyboard amp that I can play through if need be.
But most of the time I'll be plugged straight into a PA. I have the desktop vox tone lab processor. I thought it was decent sounding for its time and used it for recording. I've since moved on to a PODHD500 - light years beyond in the tones it can do. It sounds way more 'real' than the vox with its preamp tube. I was quite shocked at how good the tube sounds were on the POD.
The Eleven rack has some great sounds too. Unless the vox unit is dirt cheap, I'd save up for one of the newer systems.
As far as small tube amps go, there are tons out there these days. Orange, vox, boogie, bogner- everyone makes one. Plenty of variety I'd say go out and test drive them all. It's a great time to be a guitarist! I had a VOX Tonelab SE (the big floor unit version with two expression pedals) for a short period of time.
Boy, that thing was HUGE and heavy. My two cents: I would say the reverbs, delays, etc. Were similar to other multi-effects units. The preamp tube did not make a difference with the distortion/amp effects. If you wanted real tube distortions without a tube amp, your best investment would have been the axe fx. Those units have very realistic sounding amp modeling effects, far more realistic than any Line 6, TC electronic, VOX or anything else out there. At best, I think you will be pleased with the quality of the time-based effects of the Tonelab, but not overwhelmed or overly impressed with the distortion sounds.
I have to disagree with some of you. Granted I had an EARLY unit. I had one of the early desktop models. And with the stock tube. I was planning to return it to GC. BUT after reading about people changing the tube.
I tried it and was BLOWN away. The stock tube had no gain and no low end. I first popped a Mesa 12ax7 and later a JJ ECC83S and WOW!!! The tones were NOT better per se than my 'POD' units (I had a 2.0 and an XT). But the FEEL of the unit was light years ahead.
But that feel was ONLY evident when the master was cranked on the particular preset. I began using the 'channel volume' low on most everything and cranking the 'VR Gain' on my gain presets to get the response. Worked great. I've since gone to a Tubemeister 18 and a Dark Terror with an Isocab. So the Tonelab is sitting in my tone closet.
=) If you can change the stock tube. Seriously give it a shot. But it WILL NOT do super heavy gain. But anything just shy of Dream Theater I could probably do in spades. PJCruz wrote:I have to disagree with some of you. Granted I had an EARLY unit. I had one of the early desktop models.
And with the stock tube. I was planning to return it to GC. BUT after reading about people changing the tube. I tried it and was BLOWN away. The stock tube had no gain and no low end. I first popped a Mesa 12ax7 and later a JJ ECC83S and WOW!!!
The tones were NOT better per se than my 'POD' units (I had a 2.0 and an XT). But the FEEL of the unit was light years ahead. But that feel was ONLY evident when the master was cranked on the particular preset. I began using the 'channel volume' low on most everything and cranking the 'VR Gain' on my gain presets to get the response. Worked great.
I've since gone to a Tubemeister 18 and a Dark Terror with an Isocab. So the Tonelab is sitting in my tone closet. =) If you can change the stock tube. Seriously give it a shot. But it WILL NOT do super heavy gain. Adobe after effect tutorial. But anything just shy of Dream Theater I could probably do in spades.
I believe you had a different experience with the early units. Quite interesting also that you got a different tone by replacing the tube. As I mentioned earlier, that preamp tube in mine didn't seem to make a difference.although I never replaced either. Have you played on a Tonelab or the Valvetronix amps to know if the tube is gimmicky or not?
Neither are solid state (analog). Both are digital with a tube in the signal path. It's really easy to throw a 12ax7 into a circuit just to make people believe that a tube running into a digital processing chip sounds more realistic. I would not say the Tonelabs (or Valvetronix) are any better or worse than a Line 6 POD or the Digitechs. I have had both the POD HD 500 and the Digitech GSP1101 and my roommate had a Valvetronix amp.
They all can sound very nice. What you have to think is.Does tube tone equal good tone? There are some terrible tube amps with terrible tone out there.
So the addition of a tube doesn't magically make it better. If you want a versatile all in one unit for a decent price the Tonelab would work great. So would a POD, Digitech, or Boss. I wouldn't recommend any rack units like the Axe Fx, GSP1101, or 11rack because you will need a separate MIDI controller, so they really aren't all in one.
What's your budget? Are you okay with a rack unit with another pedal to control it? If so used Axe Fx Standards are actually selling for cheaper and cheaper. A few years ago everyone was dumping their amps to get them and now everyone is dumping their Standards and Ultra's to buy the II's. Haha Capitalize on that. Ha Try to play on each one and see which one is easiest for you to get the sounds you want and which one has an interface that seems most intuitive to you.
I think the POD HD500 is pretty easy to program where the GSP1101 is a little more of a pain. You might find the opposite. Youtube videos can get you a very small picture of how they sound but with your guitar, your ears, in your room, an item can sound completely different.
Well I ended up picking one up on Craigslist for $150. Cheap experiment and easy to resell ifs decide I don't like it. First impression is it has some good sounds, 95% of the presets need heavily tweaked IMO, but there's no doubt in my mind that the tube adds warmth. It is set up to run in the power amp section of the modeled amp, even thoug its a preamp tube. I had little trouble getting my 6505+ tone from it. It's close, but it's actually better cuz its less raw, more smooth.
I've only been at it for 2 hours so we will see what else I can come up with. I got a chance to play through a PA system. I ran straight from the Tonelab to a DI box, to the PA system. I play a PRS CE24 at the moment.
Once I figured out that the amp/line setting needs to be set to 'Line 1' or 'Line 2' - it sounded very good (but man did it sound TERRIBLE with the 'Amp' settings before I figured out it needed to be on 'Line 1 or 2'). My bro-in-law was running a Boss GT-10 (completely digital - he's been using it for years). His setup sounded pretty good because he's had years to dial in his sound, but it's noticably solid state.
The Tonelab on the other hand does infact have a 'tube' feel to it. It responds when you 'dig in', just like a tube amp would. And it has a 'gravely' gain to it that breaks and warms up just like a tube amp.
I've read reviews where people claimed that the Tonelab makes you feel like you're plugging into an actual amp as opposed to a digital processor - and I would agree with that in terms of it's tonal response to a player's dynamics and it's overall sound. Hopefully in the days to come I'll be able to speak more intelligently about the processor, but at this point, I'm impressed with the tone.
I'm a little annoyed with some aspects of how the effects pedals and expression pedal works. Ideally, I'd like to have the expression pedal to act as a volume pedal at ALL times, UNLESS I engage it (by stomping it down), in which I'd want it to turn into a Wah. I don't know if you can do this with the Tonelab, I'll have to read the manual some more. I'm far from finalizing my setup, it requires a lot more trial/error through the PA system and EQing, but I feel pretty good about it. The only complaint I have is that the features that the Tonelab offers pale in comparison to the Boss GT-10.
But I knew that going into it. My first priority was tone - effects/features were secondary. Well after some time spent with the tonelab, I have some more to say.
1) The tone is great. The tone I get from this is better than any processor I've played with or have heard first hand. That includes a plethora of cheaper processors, as well as some better ones such as the Boss GT-10 and POD500. I'm playing with a USA PRS Custom24, and the tone I can get is great in both a clean (with some chorus/reverb) and a high(er) - gain hard rock. Even on the higher gain setting I can get good 'David Gilmour' type clarity with grit or I can get Metallica. It won't quite get enough distortion to match something crazy like Zakk Wylde (or even worse with some death metal or whatever that I wouldnt be playing anyway) but it is close enough to get the job done.
The warmth of the pedal is unparalleled by any processor I've seen. This is where most processors fall short.
It does NOT sound digital. The sound can be more refined, but you can only go so far with a processor - this does an amazing job. It has more of a 'raw' sound, like a tube amp. I've compared it most closely to a Boss GT-10. The GT-10 (and most other processors from my experience) give you a 'compressed'.sort of 'studio' type sound.
Boston
Whereas the tonelab responds to picking dynamics and volume swells much like a tube amp would. It responds to pick attack and really comes alive when you would expect with a tube amp. It's impressive. 2) The effects are usable, however you're limited due to the interface. I've already mentioned this above and I knew it'd bother me, but the tone I get is so great that I'm willing to look past the interface issues.
The bottom line is that certain effects are assigned to a knob, and you can only turn that 'knob' on an off and you can only use one effect at a time from that knob. For instance, you can't have a chorus, flanger, or phaser on all at one time. However, they do sound 'decent' and the interface is very easy to use. Though there are some features that are buried in the menus that are best accessed by downloading a PDF of the user's manual. For instance, you can set the order of your effects chain, set up the EQ of your amp and a master EQ, and choose 'amp' or 'line' settings depending on whether you're plugging into an amp or a PA system (it makes a huge difference). It's good that all of these are available, you just need to dig to find them. 3) It needs a volume boost button for solos.
I'm currently looking into buying an EQ pedal to use as a volume boost and post-EQ. 4) Tuner button should be bigger, when I want to tune I have to bend over and hit the buttom that's about 1/2' wide x 1/4' long. 5) The expression pedal should always act as a volume pedal, except when stomped down to act as a wah. Unfortunately, it doesn't do this. The pedal can be assigned to a volume, however.
But it can't be one or the other. 6) I can't get the MIDI interface to work with my computer (yet). There are some pre-sets that people have uploaded to the Vox website that you can download to your processor. You can also save your patches to your computer using the MIDI connection. Unfortunately, the Vox website is down for good, so you can't share your patches with anyone else on the site, but you can still download what has been uploaded by others in the past (for now).
All in all, I am happy with it because, for me, TONE is king - effects are secondary, and this pedal's tone is great (though I'm sure a part of it is due to the PRS). I hope that VOX comes out with another Tonelab that has a more versatile effects interface with the same Valvetronix system to produce the great tone. They have released newer Tonelabs than the LE, but they don't fix any of the effect versatility issues that I'm concerned with. For as simple as the interface is, and as simple as your request is, you'd think that the tonelab would be able to do what you want it to do.
But I don't think it will. The reason why requires some explanation. (the simplicity of the tonelab is both awesome and sucky all at the same time) If I'm in a distortion patch and I'm in the 'stomp box mode' (see below), I have to hit 2 buttons to get to a clean patch (first button gets you out of stomp box mode and into 'patch mode', the 2nd button chooses the clean patch that is pre-programmed). If I'm in the 'patch mode', I only have to hit one button to go to a clean patch.
But to access the 'stomp box mode' you have to hold down one of the buttons for a few seconds. Here's a more detail explaination that hopefully makes some sense. The key is understanding the difference between 'Stomp Box Mode' and 'Patch Mode'.
Basically, you have 4 patches per bank (hopefully I'm using the correct terminology). In 'Patch Mode', you scroll through the banks using up and down arrow stomp buttons. Then if you find the right bank, there are 4 patch stomp buttons that you use to select which patch you want. The patches have programmable amps, cabs, various effects, etc. However, if you want to change one of the pre-programmed patch settings in the middle of a song, you have to go into 'Stomp Box mode'. So you have to HOLD DOWN one of the stomp buttons for a few seconds, which changes the 4 patch stomp buttons into 4 stomp buttons that control various effects.
#1 is overdrive pedals/wah pedals #2 is modulation #3 is delay #4 is reverb. Essentially the 4 buttons turn into programmable stomp boxes in stomp box mode. They turn on the effect that you have chosen using the knobs at the top of the unit. They CAN'T be cross-programmed.meaning, one stomp button is controlled by one knob. So you can only turn on one effect from one knob at one time. A HUGE problem with this system is that if you accidentailly turn your knob from (for instance) modulation delay to, say, phaser, and you click the modulation stomp box, you're going to get a phaser instead of a mod-delay.
So you have to bend over and change the knob every time you want to change an effect in 'stomp box mode'. Because of these limitations, when it comes to a gig, I will (and I recommend) taking 1 or 2 banks (4 to 8 patches) and program in all of the effects and distortions that you want to use, so you can access all of your sounds from 'Patch Mode', and then avoid 'Stomp Box Mode' as much as possible.
That way, the correct effect will be chosen, regardless of what the knob is set to. It's a very flawed system - but like I said - I'm willing to overlook it.
I set the patch and overall levels at 5.0.6.0 for a lead boost. Don't set it too high and overload anything. Best patch I've come up with is using the AC30 non top boost with the AC30 2x12 cab. I max the Vox preamp, treble, mid, bass and the VR gain, then also hit it lightly with the Tube OD, reacts great with the guitar's volume knob. I think it's important to use the post EQ built in. I set the bass to 3.0, mid 3.0 (slope 1) and high to -1.2, warms it up a bit and removes some artificial sounding highs. I set the patch and overall levels at 5.0.6.0 for a lead boost.
Don't set it too high and overload anything. Best patch I've come up with is using the AC30 non top boost with the AC30 2x12 cab. I max the Vox preamp, treble, mid, bass and the VR gain, then also hit it lightly with the Tube OD, reacts great with the guitar's volume knob. I think it's important to use the post EQ built in.
I set the bass to 3.0, mid 3.0 (slope 1) and high to -1.2, warms it up a bit and removes some artificial sounding highs. I set the patch and overall levels at 5.0.6.0 for a lead boost.
Don't set it too high and overload anything. Best patch I've come up with is using the AC30 non top boost with the AC30 2x12 cab. I max the Vox preamp, treble, mid, bass and the VR gain, then also hit it lightly with the Tube OD, reacts great with the guitar's volume knob. I think it's important to use the post EQ built in. I set the bass to 3.0, mid 3.0 (slope 1) and high to -1.2, warms it up a bit and removes some artificial sounding highs. I set the patch and overall levels at 5.0.6.0 for a lead boost. Don't set it too high and overload anything.
Best patch I've come up with is using the AC30 non top boost with the AC30 2x12 cab. I max the Vox preamp, treble, mid, bass and the VR gain, then also hit it lightly with the Tube OD, reacts great with the guitar's volume knob. I think it's important to use the post EQ built in. I set the bass to 3.0, mid 3.0 (slope 1) and high to -1.2, warms it up a bit and removes some artificial sounding highs.
These following Tonelab Le settings were based on Kent Carlevi VH Tone setting on his Tonelab Se. I just modified it a bit to get the Eruption tone. It's the closest tone I've ever been to VH early sound.
Tube od drive 3.1 tone 8.1 level 7.9 nr sense 6.4 max 10 amp US HI-GAIN cab US V30 gain 6.3 treb 7.5 mid 2.6 bass 7.9 pres 4 vr gain 6.7 ch vol 2.6 dalay tape echo time 366 ms mix 3.2 feedback 1.1 tone 7.6 lo damp 1.9 reverb plate lo damp 1.8 mix 4.3 hi damp 2.1 time 5.2 predelay 46 ms AND DUO PHASE. I used the EVH Wolfgang Special guitar thru a Line 6 Spider Jam 75 watt amp on a clean mode.